•5:00 PM
I just emailed this to a gentleman who believes that Matthew 24 does not apply to today's believer.
I had stated that I believed the Rapture was AFTER the Tribulation (which is a reference to Matt. 24:29, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...") Read it. It's AWESOME!!
Anyway, he said that what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was NOT for me today. It was for Israel.
Well, I Tim 6:3 says, "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ,..." You can't just dismiss the words of Jesus that quickly.
This is an excellent example of what I talked about in 'Dispensational Dishonesty.' Not that he was being dishonest, but he has picked it up from somebody else, who picked it up from somebody else, ...ad nauseum...and nobody has bothered to read the Scriptures on it.
Here is what I responded. May it be a help to you:
You are correct. If you don't get Israel right, you don't get Scripture right.
Check out Mark Webb's "Parable of Two Trains."
http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2006/the-parable-of-the-two-trains/
This is what I believe, more or less. There is a smooth transition between the Old to the New Covenants. The trains are different, but the passengers are the same. The passengers have merely switched trains.
Abraham was saved by faith (Rom 4). David was also. But how can that be? As Spurgeon says, "Jesus is the Saviour of the body (Eph 5:23), and besides which I know not that he is the Saviour of any other." Spurgeon believed that the OT saints were members of the same body as the NT saints!
If Jesus is the Saviour of only the Body, and Abraham was saved, then Abraham is part of the Body.
What I believe is plainly laid in Scripture:
Example #1: Jesus said in John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold [a fold existing before the Cross!]: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." He had the Jewish fold. He had other sheep of the Gentile fold. The Gentile fold he would bring and add to his Jewish fold, and there would be one fold. This was spoken BEFORE the Cross! The Gentiles would be added to the flock that existed before the Cross.
Example #2: Paul said in Romans 11 that the Gentiles are a wild olive tree. This new tree does NOT replace the old olive tree, but is grafted into old olive tree; it is PART OF IT, not a replacement for it! "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;" Now the Tree itself is Christ ("I am the vine"). The believing OT branches were NOT broken off, only the non-believing branches. To these were added new branches - the Gentiles of the NT. SO we are members of the SAME TREE, we have the SAME ROOT.
Example #3: Paul says that we Gentiles are built upon a building that includes the apostles and prophets. Christ was their foundation, and he is ours as well.
Same foundation. Same root. Same building. Same flock.
Haven't you ever wondered why the New Jerusalem has foundations named after the 12 apostles (New Testament) but gates names after the 12 tribes (Old Testament)? John Bunyan (author of Pilgrim's Progress) stated that this was clear evidence that the OT saints and NT saints were of one body, one bride. I agree with him.
Because you have separated Israel from YOURSELF, you miss the point that Matthew 24 applies to you.
But Matthew 24 discusses the fate of the 'elect' of God. Who are the 'elect'? Old Testament believers? Yes. But also, New Testament believers:
1. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?
2. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies,
3.Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes,
etc.
Paul tells us again: "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter" (Rom 2) and again "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: " (Rom 9)
This is not Replacement Theology. We don't take the place of Israel; we are joined to them.
With this in mind, you can see why the OT saints had to wait in Abraham's Bosom until the Cross. They were not suited for heaven until after the Cross. Or as Paul says in Hebrews "That they without us should not be made perfect." But if they were made 'perfect' after the Cross, just like us, then what separates them from us?
I urge you to re-think and re-study your position.
I hope I haven't offended you in anyway. That was not my purpose. I just love to teach people the word of God, and at times I'm like a fire hose...hope I didn't put too much in here! LOL
Amen.
I had stated that I believed the Rapture was AFTER the Tribulation (which is a reference to Matt. 24:29, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...") Read it. It's AWESOME!!
Anyway, he said that what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was NOT for me today. It was for Israel.
Well, I Tim 6:3 says, "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ,..." You can't just dismiss the words of Jesus that quickly.
This is an excellent example of what I talked about in 'Dispensational Dishonesty.' Not that he was being dishonest, but he has picked it up from somebody else, who picked it up from somebody else, ...ad nauseum...and nobody has bothered to read the Scriptures on it.
Here is what I responded. May it be a help to you:
You are correct. If you don't get Israel right, you don't get Scripture right.
Check out Mark Webb's "Parable of Two Trains."
http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2006/the-parable-of-the-two-trains/
This is what I believe, more or less. There is a smooth transition between the Old to the New Covenants. The trains are different, but the passengers are the same. The passengers have merely switched trains.
Abraham was saved by faith (Rom 4). David was also. But how can that be? As Spurgeon says, "Jesus is the Saviour of the body (Eph 5:23), and besides which I know not that he is the Saviour of any other." Spurgeon believed that the OT saints were members of the same body as the NT saints!
If Jesus is the Saviour of only the Body, and Abraham was saved, then Abraham is part of the Body.
What I believe is plainly laid in Scripture:
Example #1: Jesus said in John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold [a fold existing before the Cross!]: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." He had the Jewish fold. He had other sheep of the Gentile fold. The Gentile fold he would bring and add to his Jewish fold, and there would be one fold. This was spoken BEFORE the Cross! The Gentiles would be added to the flock that existed before the Cross.
Example #2: Paul said in Romans 11 that the Gentiles are a wild olive tree. This new tree does NOT replace the old olive tree, but is grafted into old olive tree; it is PART OF IT, not a replacement for it! "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;" Now the Tree itself is Christ ("I am the vine"). The believing OT branches were NOT broken off, only the non-believing branches. To these were added new branches - the Gentiles of the NT. SO we are members of the SAME TREE, we have the SAME ROOT.
Example #3: Paul says that we Gentiles are built upon a building that includes the apostles and prophets. Christ was their foundation, and he is ours as well.
Same foundation. Same root. Same building. Same flock.
Haven't you ever wondered why the New Jerusalem has foundations named after the 12 apostles (New Testament) but gates names after the 12 tribes (Old Testament)? John Bunyan (author of Pilgrim's Progress) stated that this was clear evidence that the OT saints and NT saints were of one body, one bride. I agree with him.
Because you have separated Israel from YOURSELF, you miss the point that Matthew 24 applies to you.
But Matthew 24 discusses the fate of the 'elect' of God. Who are the 'elect'? Old Testament believers? Yes. But also, New Testament believers:
1. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?
2. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies,
3.Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes,
etc.
Paul tells us again: "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter" (Rom 2) and again "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: " (Rom 9)
This is not Replacement Theology. We don't take the place of Israel; we are joined to them.
With this in mind, you can see why the OT saints had to wait in Abraham's Bosom until the Cross. They were not suited for heaven until after the Cross. Or as Paul says in Hebrews "That they without us should not be made perfect." But if they were made 'perfect' after the Cross, just like us, then what separates them from us?
I urge you to re-think and re-study your position.
I hope I haven't offended you in anyway. That was not my purpose. I just love to teach people the word of God, and at times I'm like a fire hose...hope I didn't put too much in here! LOL
Amen.
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